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Difference between JLO L295 and R295 (Read 5109 times)
bmklawt
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Show the link to this post Difference between JLO L295 and R295
02/11/08 at 12:01am
 
Hello,

First time posting here, love this board.
I have a 1971 Sno Pony R295
The tag on the motor says L295/70 but when I look at the service manual for an L295 it as a page on R295 saying if you’re motor has aluminum spacer on the PTO, cylinder heads have angled dome with offset spark plug and fan has curved fins it is a R295, I have all that.

I need new head gasket, rings and maybe a piston. Do the L295 and R295 use the same parts?

I have a parts book for an L-295 do I need to find a parts book for an R295? Can anyone help with that?
Your help is much appreciated.

Bruce
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Sledrescue
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Reply #1 - 02/11/08 at 6:59am
 
The 295R motors are pretty rare motor. parts can be difficult to find. The 295R motor had some special porting done as well, higher compression, angled plug and the curved cooling fins off the flywheel.

I have a Sno Pony 295R and there were supposedly only a few built.

I do have a complete L295 motor if you are interested in trying to use parts from that it maybe worth a try.

A 295R parts book would really be the way to go.

P.S. It sounds like you may have a L295 lower end with a 295R top end. Do you see on the PTO side of the cylinder the external porting?
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bmklawt
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Reply #2 - 02/12/08 at 12:05am
 
<<Do you see on the PTO side of the cylinder the external porting?>>

What is this?
There is a port behind the mag bracket but it does not open into the case.
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restomajic
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Show the link to this post Re: Difference between JLO L295 and R295
Reply #3 - 02/12/08 at 4:06am
 
Aluminum spacer is a crankcase stuffer. Lowers the volume of the CC and raises the volocity of the air/fuel mixture. At least that's the theory. Most people believe it doesn't really provide any benefit. It does block some lubricating flow to the PTO side bearing, not the best idea.

The curved fan is also an attempt at additional cooling. Genuine R295 will also have an aluminum diverter screwed to the inside of the outer fan shroud about the level of the manufacturer's logo. Again, questionable effectiveness. The head shroud is different, but probably only to accomodate the sparkplug relocation.

The 'external porting' you mention is probably the passages for transfer ports. They are a carry over from the L297 engine drawings from which both engines are based. May or may not be utilized from the factory.

The piston, gasket set, CC and crank are the same as the L295.

There was a point in time where Rockwell was short on conponents and they built quite a few engines with the L295 cylinder, but used the angled head. Maybe because tunnel mounted sleds needed the angled plug for handlebar clearance, I don't know, but they don't generally have the other spotting features.

If you have a genuine original R295, it should have the ID tag that reads R295. Sounds like yours may be a R295 that required major surgery at some point and was combined with basically identical parts from a L295. Or the other way around. Casting numbers on the head might clear up some questions but not necessarily.  

There has been quite a bit of interest lately in the R295. I think most of this is because of single cylinder racing making a comeback. There has also been some people trying to clone the MOD sleds from Arctic Cat. First I would say that unless you are doing a restoration to return a historic machine to original condition, the search for R295 parts is a waste of time. Mild porting, mill the head to raise compression and bolt on the larger carb adapter, and you have all the benefits of the R295 without the questionable features.

Lastly, there also has been quite a few people contacting me asking about finding Ski Whizs with the R engines. While you may be able to find some machines with the angled head, I don't think you will find many with real R295 engines with all the features. Yes, I know the books show the R295, but seriously doubt the accuracy of that information. And if you are looking for the motors only, I won't help people locate parts for clones. Just my take on that.
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bmklawt
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Reply #4 - 02/13/08 at 12:49am
 
Sledrescue thank you for that information.

restomajic Your information was exactly what I needed to know "The piston, gasket set, CC and crank are the same as the L295" by the way what are you referring to when you say CC?

I would like to restore this to new condition, but for riding not for show.
My motor does have all the stuff mentioned that a R2985 has, aluminum spacer, curved fins, angled head, shims under cylinder, "diverter screwed to the inside of the outer fan shroud"
My biggest concerns were would I be able to find a piston if I needed it, the shimming under the cylinder, if the Tillotson HD13A carb was right and are all the electricals the same.
I also have the oppertunity to buy two more of these so each kid can have one but did not want to buy if parts are not obtainable.

More questions I have:

The motor ID tag says L295/70, what does the 70 stand for

It says to shim the cylinder so a tolerance of .059" is maintained between top of piston and and rim of the cylinder head, what are they referring to when they say "rim", where do I get shims and do you put gaskets between each shim?

Is there any way to identify what piston I have?

Can I put aftermarket rings on a JLO piston?

Would like to add a starter, anyone know what will fit on this?

Anyone have a parts book or copy for a R295?

Would like a new carb, anyone know what make and model would work on this?

Your help has been, and is, greatly appreciated.

Bruce




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restomajic
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Show the link to this post Re: Difference between JLO L295 and R295
Reply #5 - 02/13/08 at 5:14am
 
Quote:
what are you referring to when you say CC?


Crankcase

Quote:
.....if the Tillotson HD13A carb was right.....


JLO did not provide the carbs to the sled builders so a manufacturers parts book would be needed to
find that out.

Quote:
.....are all the electricals the same.....


Yes.

Quote:
The motor ID tag says L295/70, what does the 70 stand for?


Before I answer that, can you tell me ALL the info the tag has on it? Or post a photo?

Quote:
Can I put aftermarket rings on a JLO piston?


Not Wiseco. Some but not all aftermarket OEM style pistons use rings that are the same dimension.
The problem with the term OEM style is that it doesn't insure you are getting pistons with the
correct dimensions or construction. Careful comparision and measurements are the only way to find
compatable parts.
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restomajic
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Show the link to this post Re: Difference between JLO L295 and R295
Reply #6 - 02/13/08 at 5:23am
 
Quote:
.....what are they referring to when they say "rim".....


The edge top of the cylinder. Commonly called 'top of the deck' in automotive terms.

Quote:
Would like to add a starter, anyone know what will fit on this?


Electric starter? Why remove the advantage of the added HP with more weight? L295 stuff will work if the flywheell has a ring gear.

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bmklawt
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Reply #7 - 02/13/08 at 10:06pm
 
Here are some pics of the ID tag and motor.
Also I brought this to a shop to get the flywheel pulled, they tried and said they couldn't do it, when I got home to take pictures of the ID tag I noticed the flywheel is now cracked (see picture)
Can this be welded?
Does anybody have one I can buy.
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bmklawt
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Show the link to this post Re: Difference between JLO L295 and R295
Reply #8 - 02/13/08 at 10:06pm
 
Motor
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bmklawt
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Reply #9 - 02/13/08 at 10:07pm
 
Cracked flywheel
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restomajic
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Reply #10 - 02/14/08 at 4:30am
 
They tried to pull it by using a puller threaded into the holes near those cracks. That flywheel is
junk now. The correct puller threads into the large threads just outside the center retaining nut.
This is unfortunate and I would be FURIOUS! As you know, those holes are intended to hold on
the starter cup/recoil components. That area is very weak when side load is applied. I seriously
doubt you could straighten that casting out and weld it with the accuracy required for it to run
without a major vibration. I believe you can substatute a standard straight vaned flywheel
without modification.

Now on to the ID tag. First thing I wanted to see was the way it was attatched. Your's looks
correct, those tiny steel pins driven through the case in standard fashion. Next I wondered
about the style and accuracy of the numbers stamped in the tag. The numbers look good, with
the standard style font machine stamped with the possible exception of the /70 after the type
number. My opinion is that it was added to designate the year. Why it is L295 instead of R295?
I don't know. About 1972, Rockwell updated the parts list with serial number blocks so you
could confirm the engine model simply by the serial number. But before that, the parts books
don't reflect the serial number blocks, so I can't narrow it down any farther. The ink layout
and background look standard also.

The rest of the engine details appear to be as JLO intended with the exception of the carb
mounting elbow. That appears to be a Gem adapter. It is possible that the sled manufacturer
used those to effect clearence near the steering post, so I won't say it's not stock, it's just
not from JLO.

I can't see it from the photo angle, but does that engine have provisions for an electric starter?
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bmklawt
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Reply #11 - 02/26/08 at 10:59pm
 
restomajic thank you so very much for all your information.

To answer you last question this motor is set up for an electric starter.

I recently acquired 5 more Sno Pony's, 3 of them are 295R, one has a R295 motor and 2 of them have L295/70 motors set up the same as the R295. The only difference I can see is the L295/70 motors are set up for electric start The R295 is not.
I also acquired a 1970ish Ferries Dealer accessories catalog, in the spark plug and in the belt section it lists the L295 as 21.5 hp and list together the R295, L295/70 as 24 hp
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