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Question: same high voltage problem on my lynx

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« Created by: Bucker on: 01/12/10 at 11:48am »

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bad voltage regulator (Read 107 times)
SteveC
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12/03/09 at 7:28pm
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How many volts should I have at the headlight?  I have a 75 pantera 340 with manual start.  I had 18 volts at the lights so I bought a new voltage regulator and it made no difference.  I have about 8-9 volts at idle, 18 at about 1/4, and over 20 after that.
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King Kat 4
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Reply #1 - 12/04/09 at 8:23pm
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I would check with a different meter or make sure the meter is calibrated.
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Darvin Jahnke
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elan74
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Reply #2 - 01/11/10 at 9:28pm
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My 1971 Panther has burned out all its lights. Its reading 23volts AC. The head light is marked 12volts. I imagine I am hunting for a new voltage regulator. Can I use a universal one from mfgsupply.com?
My main concern is knowing what went wrong. Is it just the regulator or is there something else that caused it to fail?
Is the regulator also a rectifier too?
Thanks,
BPJ
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Reply #3 - 01/11/10 at 10:08pm
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is the ground to the chassis good?
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Bucker
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Reply #4 - 01/12/10 at 11:48am
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I have a 1991 Artic Cat lyxn with the same high voltage problem and burning out headlight bulbs.I cheched all the conections and made sure it is tightly grounded to the machine. It worked good for 4 to 5 tripps ,now it is bACK TO BLOWING BULBS ( 18 VOLTS AT 1/2 THROTTLE) I can buy  anew volt reg for $ 30.00 so thats what I.m trying first.Any other subjestions would help ,let me know thanks Glen
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King Kat 4
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Reply #5 - 01/12/10 at 1:25pm
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On some electric start machines the regulator and rectifier are combined to provide for charging the battery but on manual starts there is no need for a rectifier. As was mentioned,check all wiring and grounds and if there is still a problem,replace the regulator.
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Darvin Jahnke
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SteveC
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Reply #6 - 01/12/10 at 8:21pm
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Mine is manual start but the original regulator has a wire coming out for the battery so it must have the rectifier in it.  Should I put in a universal one for electric start?  The one that I bought had a different connector and the owner of the shop told me how to wire it in and I did and it still doesn't work.
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elan74
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Reply #7 - 01/19/10 at 8:28pm
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I was reviewing the repair manual for my 1970 Panther (provided by this forum!) and found something interesting....
The manual start panther with 303 Wankel (which I have) shows no voltage regulator. What they discuss is having a 25watt resistance in parallel with the lighting circuit. This, apparently, is the "regulator."
Also no rectifier. So with my system providing 25volts, I simply unsoldered the collar on my burned out head light and stuck it on a 24volt tail light bulb. It provides enough light to be seen by.
What I am going to do long term is get some ballast resistors and put them in parallel with the new bulb.
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Earl
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Reply #8 - 01/19/10 at 9:11pm
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Earl Greendahl
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elan74
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Reply #9 - 01/19/10 at 9:43pm
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http://www.vintagesnow.com/Arctic_Cat_files/1971.pdf
I found these to be interesting too.

25w+60w+4w+4w=93w
(25/93)*(93/12)=2amps
12/2=6ohm resistance
25watt 6ohm resistance should be whats in the magic box.
BPJ
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SteveC
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Reply #10 - 01/21/10 at 4:35pm
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Can anyone help me with the wiring on my Pantera?  The owner of the shop where I bought the regulator said the connector at the engine is wired wrong.  I had to eliminate the connector so I did it one pin at a time.  It had on pin 4 a tan wire going into 2 brown wires, pin 5 yellow into a third brown wire, pin 6 another yellow wire going into a yellow with black tracer, pin 8 black into black, pin 9 gray into another black.  He told me and showed me with an older Panther with the Kawasaki engine that yellow went to yellow, etc. and my wires don't match between the engine and wire harness.  After I wired it up and added another ground from the engine to the frame everything worked except the gauge lights and the 18 volts instead of 12.  I found a wiring diagram but I can't enlarge it enough to read it.
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Reply #11 - 01/21/10 at 4:42pm
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webman has a Pantera diagram on his site
http://www.vintagesnow.com/Arctic-cat.html
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Earl Greendahl
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SteveC
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Reply #12 - 01/21/10 at 5:01pm
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I just saw that but when I enlarge it the writing becomes blurry.  I saw the same diagram somewhere else and it was the same way.
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Reply #13 - 01/22/10 at 6:44am
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Steve,
Webman has .PDFs on his site that blow up nicely. I already posted a link to my Wankel Panther's diagram. Just sniff around those pages and you'll find it.
BPJ
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Reply #14 - 01/28/10 at 7:37pm
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[quote author=Bucker link=1259890103/4#4 date=1263318483]I have a 1991 Artic Cat lyxn with the same high voltage problem and burning out headlight bulbs.I cheched all the conections and made sure it is tightly grounded to the machine. It worked good for 4 to 5 tripps ,now it is bACK TO BLOWING BULBS ( 18 VOLTS AT 1/2 THROTTLE) I can buy  anew volt reg for $ 30.00 so thats what I.m trying first.Any other subjestions would help ,let me know thanks Glen

I have new regullator on now work great no more burn out bulbs.
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elan74
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Reply #15 - 02/04/10 at 1:32pm
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I beat apart this voltage regulator from a Elan Twin. Its a single wire.
Looks like all it had was a length of carbon mounted on a heat sink.
BPJ





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elan74
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Reply #16 - 02/04/10 at 1:38pm
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I looked on ebay and this part number (4109063) is for sale for $29 plus shipping.  Wow! I can see if you want to restore a trailer queen, then you need the goods, but other wise its just a power resister, which can be found in any old Computor monitor or some such electronics. You could even use 5 or 6 ballast resistors in series to do the job, and get the lights on again.
BPJ
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elan74
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Reply #17 - 02/10/10 at 11:20am
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I bought this "universal regulator" for $17 locally yesterday. It fits a 250twin Elan perfectly. Sorry about the picture size...BPJ







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elan74
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Reply #18 - 02/10/10 at 6:02pm
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I ended up putting this on the TQ Elan to assure that I wouldn't burn out the bulbs again. Turns out this part has 70ohms resistance. I watched the voltage while the Elan ran with the lights on and it barely hit 12volts mostly stayed around 10vac. The lights were plenty bright though.
One note, the TQ Elan has a single and in the schematic the the wiring doesn't call out a regulator.
With out the regulator, open circuit voltage on the high jet was 39vac.
So there you have it.
BPJ
Next I'll build power resistors for the Wankel Panthers and see if I can get the same results "Rat" style!
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elan74
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Reply #19 - 02/23/10 at 6:17pm
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Ok these are the power resistors that I ordered from Mouser. They are 25watt 25OHM. I use them in place of the "universal regulator" that costs $20. These cost $3.00 a piece and have a real serious heat sink. BPJ
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Reply #20 - 02/26/10 at 11:43am
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Hi,
The voltage will rise and fall with engine rpm.
That's the nature of the beast with this type of system.
On a manual start sled, the regulator will not hold the voltage steady like on a car or truck.
An electric start sled has a system like an automotive one.
The best thing to do is make sure you have the correct regulator, wired in correctly, with all bulbs in good working order and correct for the application, and make sure all the electrical grounds are clean and secure.
And if your not sure about the grounds, add more.

Later .......
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Reply #21 - 03/02/10 at 4:51pm
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Electric start systems are like automotive systems in the sense that they have a provision for rectifying the current to DC for battery charging. They still have no field winding that can be shut off and on to regulate voltage. Thats what the resistor does.
If you look at the parallel circuits and add up the resistances while dividing by the number of parallel circuits you can get the equivalent resistance of the total circuit. Knowing what the wattage of the lighting coil is and subtracting the various wattages of the bulbs, you can find the wattage the resistor needs to dissipate. If we set a target voltage of 14.7 AC for the circuit we can find the range of resistances of the "regulator" that will keep the target voltage and dissapate the right number of watts.
Like PWUstrack wrote, it is a matter of keeping those bulbs in working order, or else one has a cascade of failure.
Elan74
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Reply #22 - 03/03/10 at 3:54pm
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The main thing that I need is just a wiring diagram that I can read.  The ones that I have found for the 1975 Pantera are blurry when enlarged enough to read.  The one for the 1971 was totally different, it can be read.  I also don't see why I need to add resisters the the electrical system when it originally didn't have them.  In an automotive system when it doesn't charge enough or too much replacing the voltage regulator usually solves the problem.  I have different color wires at the connector at the engine and I need to know which wire goes where.
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Reply #23 - 03/04/10 at 8:42am
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dear steve,
Have you seen this?
http://www.vintagesnow.com/Arctic_Cat_files/1975.pdf

As far as the other, if you want to see why, all you have to know is that the original voltage regulators used in pull start engines of the late sixties and early seventies WERE resisters. I was merely writing about replacing the expensive $20 regulator with a $3.00 part. Obviously this is for something like a rider or rat ride, not a restoration.
As for the Pantera, perhaps you could take a photograph of the trouble area and post it?
Elan74
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Reply #24 - 03/04/10 at 10:33am
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Steve, you have a PM from me.
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